From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Wed May 17, 2000 7:58pm Subject: Re: AOR-7000-B Question At 6:45 PM -0400 5/17/00, Jay Coote wrote: >I saw a (new?) model from AOR, the AOR-7000-B. It looks like a >lower-cost allmode (??!!) receiver with built-in LCD aplhanumeric, >spectral and PAL or NTSC (selectable) displays. >Anyone have info on this new toy? >Thanks, >Jay Coote Jay, Are you perhaps referring to the Trans View? http://www.aorusa.com/visual.html -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== "...any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke =================================================================== 363 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Wed May 17, 2000 9:43pm Subject: Mace and Chemical Weapons for Personal Protection If anybody is interested: As many of you know I am involved in several disciplines other then TSCM and technical security. Some of those include tactical training, chemical weapons, riot control, armorer skills, and related topics involving things that go boom, bump, crack, and hiss. Several years ago (93-97) I wrote a rather comprehensive text on the use of Aerosol chemical weapons such as CS, CN, and OC sprays. The text was just over 130 pages, and was designed to serve as a student text for a 1 to 2 day course (depending on the student) I teach. The text title is "Mace and Chemical Weapons for Personal Protection; Everything you ever wanted to know about Mace... But didn't know who, what, or where to ask" If any list members are interested I am offering copies of it to subscribers for $49.95 per copy, plus $10.00 for shipping and handling within the United States. Let me know if your interested. I have several other titles I have written, and may start offering them to list members as well if there is enough interest. -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== "...any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke =================================================================== 364 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Wed May 17, 2000 9:51pm Subject: FM Broadcast Measurement Protocol (repost) The following "FM Broadcast Measurement Protocol" is a proprietary method I developed to ferret out kit bugs, and other related devices being used for eavesdropping inside or just outside the FM broadcast band. As we all know any 10 year old kid can by kit bugs at Radio Shack for ten bucks, solder them together and have a fairly decent eavesdropping device. I have developed a similar protocol for TV stations, SW stations, WX, AM stations, and so on which provide a series of over 2500 measured broadcast signals that can be used as an index during sweeps. Deviations (no pun intended) in any of these signals may indicate an eavesdropping device (such as a broadcast TV frequency with audio in the wrong place, and no video carrier). Minimum Instrumentation: Digital Spectrum Analyzer Laptop computer to control SA and download data sets Biconical or Double Discone Antenna (30-300 MHz) Log Periodic or Directional Loop Lab Grade Low Noise Amplifier (+30 dB on Antenna) Low Loss Cables with N Type Connectors Antenna Stand Conducted Signals Box (Line Impedance Coupler/Filter) Pre-Sweep Readings: 1) External at 5 points, at least 1/4 mile away to profile local "friendly signals" active from 70 MHz to 135 MHz. Criss-cross with FCC databases. 2) Multiple (at least 3) readings internally before approaching the sound stage. 3) Conducted signals analysis at Elec. closets, IDF and MDF 4) Actual RF analysis of the sound stage with the antenna being moved at least 5-6 times inside each room When in doubt use a 6*6 or smaller search grid. 5) Conducted Signals Analysis. Primary Evaluations - Actual Measurements via laptop The primary function is to hunt for signals that do not conform to common standards (such as 200 kHz spacing) RBW 1 kHz VBW1 kHz Sweep5 Seconds Ref Level-65 dBm (a function of BW) Log5 dB/division Amplitude PAPreamp On (+15 dB) AverageTrace Averaging OFF HoldPeak Hold on Trace 2 HoldMinimum Hold on Trace 3 Samples1024 points (or more) for each trace Span2 MHz (10 stations, centered on graticule axis) 1st Start Freq.86.9 (Channel 200, minus 1 MHz) 1st Center87.9 (Channel 200) 1st End Freq.88.9 (Channel 200, plus 1 MHz) Step Size1600 kHz (8 channels) Last Start Freq106.5 (Channel 300, minus 1 MHz) Last Center107.5 (Channel 300) Last End Freq.108.5 (Channel 300, plus 1 MHz) Note: The noise floor should be just above the lowest graticule marking on the screen. Hostile Signal Indicators (non-alerting) 1) 200 kHz Channel Spacing Corrupted Commonly caused by variable capacitor tuning, or similar analog tuning circuits used by eavesdropping devices. Watch out for any energy present in the 25 kHz guard band between stations. 2) "Drifty" Carrier The devices are typically not crystal controlled, however; broadcast stations will be rock solid. 3) No Sub Carriers, or not a 150 kHz BW To increase range some devices may use NFM instead of WFM or may not generate sub-carrier such as the pilot tone. 4) Narrow Bandwidth Commercial stations will usually have a deviation of +/- 75 kHz. Bugs tend not to be so picky and are often less then less than +/- 75 kHz. It's not uncommon fro such bugs to use a bandwidth of less then 20 kHz. 5) Incorrect Polarization It could be a device taped horizontally under a table, and will help minimize detection. Remember to swivel your antennas to check all polarizations. 6) Little or no modulation Remember broadcasting is expensive, and commercial stations rarely make money from dead air time. On the other hand most bugs create tons of dead air. 7) FM Deviation is not symmetrical Radio Shack, Cony, Xandi, Rainbow, and Ramsey bugs do not use a balanced deviation and are typically - 90 kHz to + 45 kHz, Lower deviation is often twice the upper deviation. Beware of any Assymetrical Deviations. 8) Amplitude abnormally high Anything over -70 dBm is suspect, and anything over -50 should be considered highly hostile. I've seen some of these little devils cranked up as hot as +15 dBm at 20 feet (Remember to move your antenna around). Hostile Signal Indicators (alerting) 1) Feedback or Regenerative Signal Detection - WFM/NFM with Clicker 2) Sensitivity to thumping 3) Sensitivity to "loading effects" 4) Sensitivity to tone generation. Force widest deviation with 25-45 watt audio amp, cross over filters, and three speakers while generating a single tone, or LOUD pink noise (such as a vacuum cleaner). The goal is to exceed this acoustical limits of the bugs design, and to cause it to "flip out". Many device to start creating massive harmonics if you can overload the front end with noise or a single tone (1 kHz works well). Secondary Evaluations - Actual Measurements via laptop The primary function is to evaluate the guard band area between FM stations (which should not have any energy other then thermal noise present) RBW 1 kHz (300 Hz optional) VBW1 kHz (300 Hz optional) Sweep5 Seconds (10-15 seconds optional) Ref Level-65 dBm (a function of BW, -80 optional) Log5 dB/division Amplitude, (2 dB optional) PAPreamp On (+15 dB) AverageTrace Averaging OFF HoldPeak Hold on Trace 2 HoldMinimum Hold on Trace 3 Samples1024 points (or more) for each trace Span25 kHz (Centered on on guard band) 1st Start Freq.87.7850 (Channel 200, minus 1 MHz) 1st Center88.8000 (Channel 200) 1st End Freq.88.8125 (Channel 200, plus 1 MHz) Step Size200 kHz (1 channels) Last Start Freq108.5850 (Channel 300+) Last Center107.6000 (Channel 300+) Last End Freq.108.6125 (Channel 300+) Third Evaluation - Actual Measurements via laptop The function is to identify RF energy just outside the FM broadcast band which may or may not be hostile. Watch out for TV-6 audio signals, and for wireless microphones in the 72-75 MHz area. RBW 1 kHz VBW1 kHz Sweep5 Seconds Ref Level-65 dBm (a function of BW) Log5 dB/division Amplitude PAPreamp On (+15 dB) AverageTrace Averaging OFF HoldPeak Hold on Trace 2 HoldMinimum Hold on Trace 3 Samples1024 points (or more) for each trace Span2 MHz 1st Start Freq.69 1st Center70 1st End Freq.71 Step Size1000 kHz Last Start Freq134 Last Center135 Last End Freq.136 Of course you still will need to check from DC to light, but the above methods help to find eavesdropping device inside the FM broadcast band. If you find the above protocol helpful then you can at least buy me a cup of coffee. -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== "...any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke =================================================================== 365 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Wed May 17, 2000 9:59pm Subject: Telephone Analyzer Greetings, I am trying to assemble a "wish list" of the practical things that TSCM'ers would like to see in a compact phone analyzer, and the priority they put on each. Please send me you comments, Thanks, -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== "...any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke =================================================================== 366 From: Date: Thu May 18, 2000 1:27am Subject: Re: Copyright Violations Jim; you could tell them ,that they must post a link to your site,or cease and desist! a little extra advertising, for what it is worth ! good luck! HAVE A GREAT DAY !!! 367 From: A Grudko Date: Thu May 18, 2000 8:22am Subject: Re: Copyright Violations James, please visit my site and tell me if there is any of your stuff on there. Parts of my site have been compiled by someone else and I cannot verify the origins of all pics. Most have come from my personal collection but I will remove any you think have been plagerised. In particular look at the 'Technical' and 'Photo Gallery' pages. Thanks Andy Grudko (CEO) - Grudko Wilson Associates (SA) (Pty) Ltd - Crime investigation & intelligence Johannesburg - Cape Town - Durban - Pretoria - UK - US - Canada - Australia Israel - www.grudko.com. - (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) - Est. 1981 Members of : SCIP (Gauteng Chairman), SACI (President), GIN (Charter), WAD, CALI, SASFed, SASA, SAMLF, UKPIN, Prisoners' Rehabilitation & Education Trust --- "When you need it done right - first time" --- 368 From: Jay Coote Date: Thu May 18, 2000 10:52am Subject: Re: AOR-7000-B Question No, it is a scanner/receiver, and one person told me the output PAL or NTSC signal is only to put the receiver alpha display on a video monitor; not for demodulating TV signals....bah, humbug! Jay Coote ---------- > At 6:45 PM -0400 5/17/00, Jay Coote wrote: > >I saw a (new?) model from AOR, the AOR-7000-B. It looks like a > >lower-cost allmode (??!!) receiver with built-in LCD aplhanumeric, > >spectral and PAL or NTSC (selectable) displays. > >Anyone have info on this new toy? > >Thanks, > >Jay Coote > > > > Jay, > > Are you perhaps referring to the Trans View? > > http://www.aorusa.com/visual.html > > > -jma > > > =================================================================== > Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? > =================================================================== > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 > Granite Island Group > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com > =================================================================== > "...any sufficiently advanced technology is > indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke > =================================================================== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > IT Professionals: Match your unique skills with the best IT projects at > http://click.egroups.com/1/3381/1/_/507420/_/958611620/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS > > 369 From: J Gomez <1upserv@g...> Date: Mon May 1, 2000 10:15pm Subject: Re: smoke detectors Recce first. there are many differrent types of smoke detectors, all with diff housings. Do a recce, then try to match by buying a similar and using your minicraft to fit. Joe ---------- > From: Mike F > To: PRIVATE-EYE ; PI-GROUP ; NIA ; Comtel ; TSCM- > Subject: [TSCM-L] smoke detectors > Date: 17 May 2000 14:33 > > Does any one know where I can purchase the Housing for smoke detectors? > I need a smoke detecter with nothing in it so I can put in camera. > I can purchase smoke detecters & take the guts out, > but that would be a waste of time & my money. > If any one knows where i could purchase this I would appreciatte any & all > info. > later4,mike f. > > > > Michael T. Fiorentino > Syracuse,NY 13206 > > "CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING" > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > and/or confidential. The information is intended for use only by the > individual(s) > or entity named/indicated above. If you are not the identified/intended > recipient, be aware that > any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this > message/information is prohibited. If you are not the indicated recipient or > have > received this message in error contact our offices immediately for > instructions." > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net. > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now: > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/1/_/507420/_/958577414/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 370 From: Jay Coote Date: Thu May 18, 2000 1:58pm Subject: Response to Jim's TA wish-list query Jim may have started some lively "You're crazy to do it that way" debate when he requested member wish-lists for a telephone analyzer. I would like to see the following.... credit should go to Jim and other list members I have discussed breakout boxes with. I know there are other functions I may have overlooked that other list members can contribute. Matrix Switches: Select any of 8 wires, as well as wire against earth. Test Switches: Select tests such as off-hook volts/mA, on-hook volts/mA Ring-to-earth, tip-to-earth, balanced load center-tap to earth, Off-hook load resistance (simulates instrument resistance or other precision values possibly 100, 150, 200, 300 and variable multi-turn pot), operated by combination momentary and latching toggle switch. Sweep Tones: Sweep tones to enable audio tone, DTMF, etc controlled devices on the line(s). Make tones usable for tracing wires, as well as upconverting the tone(s) to ultrasonic for silent wire detection by external probes. High-Z Audio Amplifier: Balanced, high-Z ampl to monitor any pair combination or wire vs. earth connection. Isolated and possibly filtered for 50/60 Hz. 3.5 mm, 1/4" and RJ-11 (buttset) connectors for various types of earphones or buttset monitoring. Metering: Built-in 4 1/2 digit LCD meter(s) to read on/off-hook Volts, short current, current through loads, also resistance >300 Megs, possibly include capacitance meter. Direct readings, no calculations required. Banana posts for external meters. VLF: Built-in VLF/LF receiver; 5-500 kHz, using internal audio amp (above) or else internal VLF upconvertor to feed external HF all-mode receiver, convertor IF on 4, 5, 10 or convenient HF freq so that a "bug" on 172 KHz would read 4172 or 10172 on the (IF) receiver display. Convertor filtered against AM (medium-wave) interference. Line Driver: "Safe" method for injecting a low DC voltage into a pair (both polarities) to activate any mikes or low-powered DC switching. Throughputs: RJ-45 input and output so that instrument may be tested/operated with the analyzer in-line, if needed. Connectors on the analyzer could be twist-on military type if RJ-45 are too fragile, but jumpers could be flexible with RJ-11 or RJ-45 on the ends. Connectors: Standard connectors (such as BNC, banana, and 3.5 MM for phones) enough to allow connection of external devices more than one at a time, such as scope, TDR, SA, DVM, LC meter, receiver. Switches: Metal "cans" or shrouds around the toggle switches to prevent accidental activation of DC , tones, or off-hook tests . Housing: Small Pelican case or a plain aluminum Bud-box?. Remarks: Some of us might like to assemble and package our own, plus or minus some features. Perhaps schematics or modules/PC boards might be of interest rather than a manufactured unit? As for a deluxe, PC-controlled, automated 51-wire telephone analyzer, that's another story... Jay Coote Los Angeles 371 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Thu May 18, 2000 3:42pm Subject: Re: Response to Jim's TA wish-list query At 3:02 PM -0400 5/18/00, Jay Coote wrote: >Jim may have started some lively "You're crazy to do it that way" debate >when he requested member wish-lists for a telephone analyzer. > >I would like to see the following.... credit should go to Jim and other >list members I have discussed breakout boxes with. I know there >are other functions I may have overlooked that other list members >can contribute. > >Matrix Switches: >Select any of 8 wires, as well as wire against earth. How about a series of 8 position rotary switches to select which pin comprises which circuit. Since the pairs will be/should be standard though out the installation (ie: 258A) then you would only need to configure the switches once for the job. Then two rotary switches to select which TWO pairs were under test at the same time (ie: a two line TDR). I would lean towards adding four jacks for ground, antenna, or whatever and allow then to be as reference points (I tend to like have at least two ground test points available). >Test Switches: >Select tests such as off-hook volts/mA, on-hook volts/mA >Ring-to-earth, tip-to-earth, balanced load center-tap to earth, >Off-hook load resistance (simulates instrument resistance or >other precision values possibly 100, 150, 200, 300 and variable >multi-turn pot), operated by combination momentary and latching >toggle switch. How about a capacitance test (connection to an external meter) VLF/RF detector? Ring voltage detector? Basic audio spectrum analyzer? Basic VLF detector and display? >Sweep Tones: >Sweep tones to enable audio tone, DTMF, etc controlled >devices on the line(s). Make tones usable for tracing wires, >as well as upconverting the tone(s) to ultrasonic for silent wire >detection by external probes. How about random DTMF tone generation, plus polyphonic (5 tone) sweeping. I would lean towards a swept tone, stable tone, and warbling tone (actual freq would be adjustable). What frequency would you prefer for the ultrasonic probe... by preference is to put it above 15 kHz, but below 100 kHz. Dual lead TDR pulser would be fairly simple to add ad this point, just re-tune the oscillator and amply the signal. >High-Z Audio Amplifier: >Balanced, high-Z ampl to monitor any pair combination or wire >vs. earth connection. Isolated and possibly filtered for 50/60 Hz. >3.5 mm, 1/4" and RJ-11 (buttset) connectors for various types >of earphones or buttset monitoring. How about a 50/60 Hz comb filter, AGC? ... how about just using a butt set instead? Internal speaker? How about a "Sing around tone", a series of precision tones, or a pink noise generator. >Metering: >Built-in 4 1/2 digit LCD meter(s) to read on/off-hook Volts, >short current, current through loads, also resistance >300 Megs, >possibly include capacitance meter. Direct readings, no >calculations required. Banana posts for external meters. Hmm... I lean more towards an external meter... it will reduce the cost by about 500 bucks, and allow more versatility. "Direct readings" could be a function of the load used across the meter. Gotta, have some way (IMHO) to connect a Spectrum Analyzer to all wire combinations, but also knock out any hostile voltage which could hurt the instrument. >VLF: >Built-in VLF/LF receiver; 5-500 kHz, using internal audio amp (above) >or else internal VLF upconvertor to feed external HF all-mode receiver, >convertor IF on 4, 5, 10 or convenient HF freq so that a "bug" on >172 KHz would read 4172 or 10172 on the (IF) receiver display. >Convertor filtered against AM (medium-wave) interference. An internal tuner with 12 switched bandpass filters from 9 kHz to 550 kHz (50 kHz wide). up convert it to an IF of 10.7 MHz (so you can use most scanners, or related items). The 10.7 IF could also be dumped into a tunable demod/short wave receiver so that each band could be checked for signals. How about position one of the rotary switch simply block converts the audio from 300 Hz to 3 kHz to 10.7 MHz. Position two covers 3 kHz to 10 kHz Position 3 - 12 covers 9 kHz to 550 kHz >Line Driver: >"Safe" method for injecting a low DC voltage into a pair >(both polarities) >to activate any mikes or low-powered DC switching. Ah, but what voltage? and should there be some kind of current limiting? >Throughputs: >RJ-45 input and output so that instrument may be tested/operated >with the analyzer in-line, if needed. Connectors on the analyzer could >be twist-on military type if RJ-45 are too fragile, but jumpers could >be flexible with RJ-11 or RJ-45 on the ends. I would lean towards using mini-WECO jacks for all primary inputs, and an RJ-45 for secondary outputs. The jumpers could be replaced by the rotary switches. >Connectors: >Standard connectors (such as BNC, banana, and 3.5 MM for phones) >enough to allow connection of external devices more than one at a time, >such as scope, TDR, SA, DVM, LC meter, receiver. This is I am using now). WECO and RJ-45 for "raw signals" input and output (with probe tip jacks added) Mueller safety jacks for leads to DVM, Isolated BNC for scope connections, (TDR circuit) N-Style for SA/RF out (to prevent someone hooking a TDR up to a SA), RCA for line (un amplified) audio outputs, 3.5 mm for amplified audio >Switches: >Metal "cans" or shrouds around the toggle switches to prevent >accidental activation of DC , tones, or off-hook tests . Good point >Housing: >Small Pelican case or a plain aluminum Bud-box?. I am leaning towards a 4 * 6 * 1.5 inch hand held box about the same size as a hand held DVM. I want to keep it simple, small, and portable so you can toss it into a briefcase, and it will not look like "any thing special" >Remarks: >Some of us might like to assemble and package our own, plus or >minus some features. Perhaps schematics or modules/PC boards >might be of interest rather than a manufactured unit? >As for a deluxe, PC-controlled, automated 51-wire telephone >analyzer, that's another story... > >Jay Coote >Los Angeles I currently have the capability to offer it as a complete finished product (all I have to due is cut some PCBs, and screen some panels). I am considering offering a small hand held "single line" unit that uses external instruments (I already have a completely functional prototype of this unit that I have been using in the field for a while). The critical aspect of the first product is to rely on external instruments, and the user turning knobs and pushing buttons. -jma =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 372 From: John McCain Date: Thu May 18, 2000 4:24pm Subject: Re:Telephone Analyzer wish list A lurker speaks on the telephone analyzer "project".... Let's not forget about that notebook PC everyone carries... By now, I hope everyone is using a notebook computer that has a marginally good sound card capable of audio spectrum analysis and audio multi-tone generation. By using some pretty simple cross-bar electronics in the add-on dream box, it's a parallel-port/software-controlled electronic or dip-relay cross bar switching system. With this, automate some of that switching and button-pushing activity as well as create "project profiles" to simplify return visits. Just watch for the noise the computer generates. If you can tolerate the computer's EMF, it's a quite useful tool. Cheers, John M. 373 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Thu May 18, 2000 5:10pm Subject: Re:Telephone Analyzer wish list At 4:24 PM -0500 5/18/00, John McCain wrote: >A lurker speaks on the telephone analyzer "project".... > >Let's not forget about that notebook PC everyone carries... > >By now, I hope everyone is using a notebook computer that has a marginally >good sound card capable of audio spectrum analysis and audio multi-tone >generation. > >By using some pretty simple cross-bar electronics in the add-on dream box, >it's a parallel-port/software-controlled electronic or dip-relay cross bar >switching system. With this, automate some of that switching and >button-pushing activity as well as create "project profiles" to simplify >return visits. > >Just watch for the noise the computer generates. If you can tolerate the >computer's EMF, it's a quite useful tool. > >Cheers, >John M. > I was actually considering a USB type of interface, as this would allow multiple instruments to be ganged up and would allow dozens of instruments to be used in parallel to cut down on the time used. I would add that the parallel port is "bad medicine" for TSCM and it tends to create massive EMI. -jma =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 374 From: Jordan Ulery Date: Thu May 18, 2000 7:37pm Subject: Re: smoke detectors Pardon the question, but there are so many commercial models available at low price, why take the time to build? J Gomez wrote: > Recce first. there are many differrent types of smoke detectors, all with > diff housings. Do a recce, then try to match by buying a similar and using > your minicraft to fit. > Joe > > ---------- > > From: Mike F > > To: PRIVATE-EYE ; PI-GROUP > ; NIA ; Comtel > ; TSCM- > > Subject: [TSCM-L] smoke detectors > > Date: 17 May 2000 14:33 > > > > Does any one know where I can purchase the Housing for smoke detectors? > > I need a smoke detecter with nothing in it so I can put in camera. > > I can purchase smoke detecters & take the guts out, > > but that would be a waste of time & my money. > > If any one knows where i could purchase this I would appreciatte any & > all > > info. > > later4,mike f. > > > > > > > > Michael T. Fiorentino > > Syracuse,NY 13206 > > > > "CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING" > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > > and/or confidential. The information is intended for use only by the > > individual(s) > > or entity named/indicated above. If you are not the identified/intended > > recipient, be aware that > > any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this > > message/information is prohibited. If you are not the indicated recipient > or > > have > > received this message in error contact our offices immediately for > > instructions." > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net. > > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now: > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/1/_/507420/_/958577414/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > subTSCM-L@t... > > =================================================== TSKS > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com: > http://click.egroups.com/1/4052/1/_/507420/_/958670313/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 375 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Thu May 18, 2000 7:54pm Subject: Re: smoke detectors Uh Mike..... I would direct you attention to your local Home Depot, buy several of each model and simply build around what is already there. You might also want to take a look at the thermostats, carbon monoxide alarms, timers, and related gadgets that can be used for interesting things. Of course I am not condoning any kind of illicit surveillance, or other kinds of nefarious mischief. (ahem) -jma At 5:15 AM +0200 5/2/00, J Gomez wrote: >Recce first. there are many differrent types of smoke detectors, all with >diff housings. Do a recce, then try to match by buying a similar and using >your minicraft to fit. >Joe > >---------- > > From: Mike F > > To: PRIVATE-EYE ; PI-GROUP >; NIA ; Comtel >; TSCM- > > Subject: [TSCM-L] smoke detectors > > Date: 17 May 2000 14:33 > > > > Does any one know where I can purchase the Housing for smoke detectors? > > I need a smoke detecter with nothing in it so I can put in camera. > > I can purchase smoke detecters & take the guts out, > > but that would be a waste of time & my money. > > If any one knows where i could purchase this I would appreciatte any & >all > > info. > > later4,mike f. > > > > > > > > Michael T. Fiorentino > > Syracuse,NY 13206 =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 376 From: Mike F Date: Fri May 19, 2000 7:13am Subject: More Info On New VIrus Subject: This new polymorphic variant will erase ALL files http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/vbs.loveletter.fw.a.html This new polymorphic variant will erase ALL files. Currently no vendor has a solution. Do not open anything with a .VBS extension. The .VBS will not be in the subject line, and the worm uses your most recently used documents lists to generate the filename. later4,mike f. Michael T. Fiorentino Syracuse,NY 13206 "CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING" This electronic message contains information which may be privileged and/or confidential. The information is intended for use only by the individual(s) or entity named/indicated above. If you are not the identified/intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message/information is prohibited. If you are not the indicated recipient or have received this message in error contact our offices immediately for instructions." 377 From: Mike F Date: Fri May 19, 2000 8:12am Subject: US Intelligence links listed at columbia University US Intelligence Sites Columbia University http://www.columbia.edu/cu/libraries/indiv/dsc/intell.html later4,mike fiorentino Michael T. Fiorentino Syracuse,NY 13206 "CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING" This electronic message contains information which may be privileged and/or confidential. The information is intended for use only by the individual(s) or entity named/indicated above. If you are not the identified/intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message/information is prohibited. If you are not the indicated recipient or have received this message in error contact our offices immediately for instructions." 378 From: Mike F Date: Fri May 19, 2000 8:20am Subject: Security On the Net Security On the Net http://securityportal.com/ later4,mike fiorentino Michael T. Fiorentino Syracuse,NY 13206 "CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING" This electronic message contains information which may be privileged and/or confidential. The information is intended for use only by the individual(s) or entity named/indicated above. If you are not the identified/intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message/information is prohibited. If you are not the indicated recipient or have received this message in error contact our offices immediately for instructions." 379 From: Mike F Date: Fri May 19, 2000 8:35am Subject: RF Preamps and Downconvertors Jay I find that Nuts&volts has one Compiled one of most useful Lists of Electronics. They have listed Ramsey electronics & supercircuits plus many more Good sites. http://www.nutsvolts.com/adlinks.htm Check with RF Preamps and Downconvertors Anyone have sources in the US for "kit" or hobby RF preamps and microwave downconvertors? I am looking for a 2000-4000 Mhz to 0-2000 MHz D/C, as well as 4000-6000 MHz to 0-2000 MHz. Also looking for wideband RF preamps, hopefully to cover 5-10 KHz through 3000 MHz or higher, with 15-25 dB gain. Thanks Jay Coote Los Angeles TSCM@j... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com: http://click.egroups.com/1/4052/1/_/507420/_/958277044/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L or email your subscription request to: subTSCM-L@t... =================================================== TSKS 380 From: Robert G. Ferrell Date: Fri May 19, 2000 10:58am Subject: Re: More Info On New VIrus >This new polymorphic variant will erase ALL files. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quite frankly, folks, especially if you're using any Microsoft-based Mail User Agent, you should really go grab yourselves a Hex Editor off the net and examine any attachment before you open it. If you can't read it, it's binary. If it's binary and there's no header information as to its format (.gif, .jpg, etc.), then just delete it. I redirect all my suspicious mail to a Unix box with no VBS available and look at it there. If it's clean, I can then send it back to the Windoze box. A lot of trouble to go through, admittedly, but then so is restoring your entire hard disk... Cheers, RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Information Systems Security Officer National Business Center, US DoI Robert_G_Ferrell@n... ------------------------------------------------------------ Nothing I have ever said should be construed as even vaguely representing an official statement by the NBC or DoI. ------------------------------------------------------------ 381 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri May 19, 2000 1:08pm Subject: One Stop TSCM Outfitter - Shameless Plug Good afternoon, If you are considering upgrading your TSCM capabilities I would high encourage you to look at the CPM-700, OSCOR, and ORION, and also the 2044, 1080H, SCD-5, 2030, and related equipment. The equipment is very high quality, and customers are really happy with the results they obtain using it. If any list members is interesting TSCM equipment please let me know as we can offer very favorable availability, great product selection (of real TSCM gear, not spy shop toys), and very attractive pricing. We can offer solutions range from simple broadband diode field detectors, basic sweep instruments such as the 1059, 2030, SCD-5, 2044 and CPM-700, to products such as sophisticated spectrum analyzers, broadband sweep receivers, MSS gear, and related equipment. If you need any kind of real world TSCM gear, let us be your one stop supplier. -jma =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 382 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri May 19, 2000 1:22pm Subject: Bears in Bars [humor] Bears in Bars ------------ A bear walks into a bar in Billings, Montana and sits down. He bangs on the bar with his paw and demands a beer. The bartender approaches and says, "We don't serve beer to bears in bars in Billings." The bear, becoming angry, demands again that he be served a beer. The bartender tells him again, more forcefully, "We don't serve beer to belligerent bears in bars in Billings." The bear, very angry now, says, "If you don't serve me a beer, I'm going to eat that lady sitting at the end of the bar." The bartender says, "Sorry, we don't serve beer to belligerent, bully bears in bars in Billings." The bear goes to the end of the bar, and as promised, eats woman. He comes back to his seat and again demands a beer. The bartender states, "Sorry, we don't serve beer to belligerent, bully bears in bars in Billings who are on drugs." The bear says, "I'm not on drugs." The bartender says, "You are now. That was a bar-bitch-you-ate." =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 383 From: Mike Dever Date: Fri May 19, 2000 7:09pm Subject: Re: Response to Jim's TA wish-list query Mr Atkinson IMHO the "external instruments" or "modular" TA is the preferred method as it allows flexibility in configuration of instrumentation for different applications, allows reuse of certain instruments (thereby reducing total inventory) and also allows the TSCMer to chose the best instrument(s) available for the job. We use this approach to telephone analysers ourselves. I have even considered designing and building a similar unit to the one you describe, however, I generally don't believe in "re-inventing" the wheel if a product is commercially available. Have you considered any further offering your " single line" TA/BOB (as mentioned below) for sale to other TSCMers? If so any idea of the order of cost and when would it be available? Regards Mike Dever CPP Dever Clark & Associates Canberra, Australia e-mail: deverclark@b... > From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" > Reply-To: TSCM-L@egroups.com > Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:42:14 -0400 > To: TSCM-L@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Response to Jim's TA wish-list query > > ....... I currently have the capability to offer it as a complete finished > product (all I have to due is cut some PCBs, and screen some panels). > I am considering offering a small hand held "single line" unit that > uses external instruments (I already have a completely functional > prototype of this unit that I have been using in the field for a > while). 384 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri May 19, 2000 10:03pm Subject: Re: Response to Jim's TA wish-list query "Years ago" I used to drag around a big bulky telephone analyzer such as the older Winklemann unit, or a Bell/Mason/Dektor box. The only problem is while they were all handy not a single one of them could address modifications to modern PBX systems unless there was parasitic current draw, or obvious audio signals. I hacked, chopped, modified, and squeezed a gizmo in here and there to help the instruments, but finally gave up on it a few years back and entered up designing several boxes that would let me interconnect a number of laboratory grade instruments. I little ping circuit here, a voltage divider there, some simple demod circuits, a PCM circuit, some TSG measurement parameters, mix in a few VU meters, and so on. The only problem is the boxes would get larger and unwieldy as an extra gizmo was added, which it turn resulted in the box being reworked to keep it into a hand held box. I found that by keeping it small I could get the instrument into phone rooms with more ease, and could perform a more comprehensive evaluation of the phone system (something simply not possible with the older units). Of course I was still using a SA, O'scope, DVM, etc for other elements of my exam, so I simply built a box to cross connect everything together. The old Winklemann, Bell/Mason/Dektor boxes are find for the old 25 pair Key systems, but they are virtually worthless for really serious TSCM on modern PBX systems. While I have played around with a totally automated solution I really have to be suspicious of such a solution, (but it may just be that I like to be "hands on" for all my measurements). A simple analog test box would run about a grand or less, and would be hand held using external instruments for the most part. -jma At 10:09 AM +1000 5/20/00, Mike Dever wrote: >Mr Atkinson > >IMHO the "external instruments" or "modular" TA is the preferred method as >it allows flexibility in configuration of instrumentation for different >applications, allows reuse of certain instruments (thereby reducing total >inventory) and also allows the TSCMer to chose the best instrument(s) >available for the job. > >We use this approach to telephone analysers ourselves. > >I have even considered designing and building a similar unit to the one you >describe, however, I generally don't believe in "re-inventing" the wheel if >a product is commercially available. > >Have you considered any further offering your " single line" TA/BOB (as >mentioned below) for sale to other TSCMers? If so any idea of the order of >cost and when would it be available? > >Regards >Mike Dever CPP >Dever Clark & Associates >Canberra, Australia >e-mail: deverclark@b... > > > From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" > > Reply-To: TSCM-L@egroups.com > > Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:42:14 -0400 > > To: TSCM-L@egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Response to Jim's TA wish-list query > > > > ....... I currently have the capability to offer it as a complete finished > > product (all I have to due is cut some PCBs, and screen some panels). > > I am considering offering a small hand held "single line" unit that > > uses external instruments (I already have a completely functional > > prototype of this unit that I have been using in the field for a > > while). =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 385 From: Jay Coote Date: Fri May 19, 2000 10:24pm Subject: Tone Sweepers Does anyone have a schematic for an audio tone sweeper they might wish to share with me? I think I'll need two separate sweeping tones, probably 0 to -10 dBm level, voiceband. Thanks, J. Coote 386 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri May 19, 2000 10:32pm Subject: Re: Tone Sweepers At 11:29 PM -0400 5/19/00, Jay Coote wrote: >Does anyone have a schematic for an audio tone sweeper they might wish >to share with me? I think I'll need two separate sweeping tones, probably >0 to -10 dBm level, voiceband. >Thanks, >J. Coote First, how fast do you want it to sweep? Second, what frequency range do you want to cover? -jma =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 387 From: Rocco Rosano Date: Sat May 20, 2000 0:04am Subject: Re: Tone Sweepers Et Al: I assume that you talking about a "Correlator". The last time I heard, the "correlator frequencies" were classified (those used by federal level agencies). In general, they are synchronize frequency hoping tones in to separate ranges; one for power voice grade lines and free-space. The power of voice is 300Hz - 3Kh (generally). Obviously, you would want to avoid this particular range. You would also want to hop and sample at a rate greater than 10 times the top end of the voice range (for the same reason). Rocco Rosano Reynoldsburg, Ohio mailto:roccorosano@a... Jay Coote wrote: > Does anyone have a schematic for an audio tone sweeper they might wish > to share with me? I think I'll need two separate sweeping tones, probably > 0 to -10 dBm level, voiceband. > Thanks, > J. Coote > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > High rates giving you headaches? The 0% APR Introductory Rate from > Capital One. 9.9% Fixed thereafter! > http://click.egroups.com/1/3010/1/_/507420/_/958793087/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 388 From: Rocco Rosano Date: Sat May 20, 2000 0:08am Subject: Re: Tone Sweepers Et Al: Sorry for the spelling. I should never write these memo's this late at night. rrr Rocco Rosano wrote: > Et Al: > > I assume that you talking about a "Correlator". The last time I heard, the > "correlator frequencies" were classified (those used by federal level > agencies). > > In general, they are synchronize frequency hoping tones in to separate > ranges; one for power voice grade lines and free-space. > > The power of voice is 300Hz - 3Kh (generally). Obviously, you would want to > avoid this particular range. You would also want to hop and sample at a rate > greater than 10 times the top end of the voice range (for the same reason). > > Rocco Rosano > Reynoldsburg, Ohio > mailto:roccorosano@a... > > Jay Coote wrote: > > > Does anyone have a schematic for an audio tone sweeper they might wish > > to share with me? I think I'll need two separate sweeping tones, probably > > 0 to -10 dBm level, voiceband. > > Thanks, > > J. Coote > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > High rates giving you headaches? The 0% APR Introductory Rate from > > Capital One. 9.9% Fixed thereafter! > > http://click.egroups.com/1/3010/1/_/507420/_/958793087/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > subTSCM-L@t... > > =================================================== TSKS > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 72% off on Name brand Watches! > Come and buy today and get free shipping! > http://click.egroups.com/1/4011/1/_/507420/_/958798883/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 389 From: Jay Coote Date: Sat May 20, 2000 8:31am Subject: Re: Tone Sweepers (See thread below) Jim and the List; I was interested in adding two sweeping tones to my breakout box, if anyone has a schematic. I am guessing voiceband, 200-4000 Hz. Jim brings up a good point. Speed of the sweep tones. If too slow, it will take all night to sweep one POTS line. Too fast and the sweep may not stay on any frequency long enough to trigger a control device on the line. Another speed issue is how often will the tones cross over each other (to simulate DTMF or other dual tones) Jay Coote Los Angeles ---------- > At 11:29 PM -0400 5/19/00, Jay Coote wrote: > >Does anyone have a schematic for an audio tone sweeper they might wish > >to share with me? I think I'll need two separate sweeping tones, probably > >0 to -10 dBm level, voiceband. > >Thanks, > >J. Coote > > > > First, how fast do you want it to sweep? > > Second, what frequency range do you want to cover? > > -jma > > > =================================================================== > Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, > for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. > =================================================================== > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 > Granite Island Group > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com > =================================================================== > Nil carborundum illigitimi > =================================================================== > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Buy and sell used, rare and vintage gear at the Web's best > music gear auction. Register to enter the weekly gear giveaway! > http://click.egroups.com/1/3735/1/_/507420/_/958793705/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS > > 390 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Sat May 20, 2000 8:48am Subject: Re: Tone Sweepers I have had good results by keeping the DTMF tone bursts at 150 mS or longer, and the single tones at 100 mS or longer. The primary VF "cross over" sweeps should take about 45, 15, 5, 1.6, and .5 seconds (assuming 5 tones are used). -jma At 9:34 AM -0400 5/20/00, Jay Coote wrote: >(See thread below) >Jim and the List; >I was interested in adding two sweeping tones to my breakout box, if >anyone has a schematic. >I am guessing voiceband, 200-4000 Hz. >Jim brings up a good point. Speed of the sweep tones. If too slow, >it will take all night to sweep one POTS line. Too fast and the sweep >may not stay on any frequency long enough to trigger a control >device on the line. Another speed issue is how often will the tones >cross over each other (to simulate DTMF or other dual tones) > >Jay Coote >Los Angeles > > >---------- > > At 11:29 PM -0400 5/19/00, Jay Coote wrote: > > >Does anyone have a schematic for an audio tone sweeper they might wish > > >to share with me? I think I'll need two separate sweeping tones, probably > > >0 to -10 dBm level, voiceband. > > >Thanks, > > >J. Coote > > > > > > > > First, how fast do you want it to sweep? > > > > Second, what frequency range do you want to cover? > > > > -jma > > =================================================================== Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@tscm.com =================================================================== Nil carborundum illigitimi =================================================================== 391 From: J Gomez <1upserv@g...> Date: Wed May 3, 2000 6:36am Subject: Re: smoke detectors Simple- to match what is on the ground, sorry...ceiling. Can't make it too obvious now can we? ---------- > From: Jordan Ulery > To: TSCM-L@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] smoke detectors > Date: 19 May 2000 02:37 > > Pardon the question, but there are so many commercial models available at low > price, why take the time to build? > > J Gomez wrote: > > > Recce first. there are many differrent types of smoke detectors, all with > > diff housings. Do a recce, then try to match by buying a similar and using > > your minicraft to fit. > > Joe > > > > ---------- > > > From: Mike F > > > To: PRIVATE-EYE ; PI-GROUP > > ; NIA ; Comtel > > ; TSCM- > > > Subject: [TSCM-L] smoke detectors > > > Date: 17 May 2000 14:33 > > > > > > Does any one know where I can purchase the Housing for smoke detectors? > > > I need a smoke detecter with nothing in it so I can put in camera. > > > I can purchase smoke detecters & take the guts out, > > > but that would be a waste of time & my money. > > > If any one knows where i could purchase this I would appreciatte any & > > all > > > info. > > > later4,mike f. > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael T. Fiorentino > > > Syracuse,NY 13206 > > > > > > "CONFIDENTIALITY WARNING" > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > > > and/or confidential. The information is intended for use only by the > > > individual(s) > > > or entity named/indicated above. If you are not the identified/intended > > > recipient, be aware that > > > any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this > > > message/information is prohibited. If you are not the indicated recipient > > or > > > have > > > received this message in error contact our offices immediately for > > > instructions." > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net. > > > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now: > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/2345/1/_/507420/_/958577414/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > ======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > > subTSCM-L@t... > > > =================================================== TSKS > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com: > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4052/1/_/507420/_/958670313/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > or email your subscription request to: > > subTSCM-L@t... > > =================================================== TSKS > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com: > http://click.egroups.com/1/4052/1/_/507420/_/958696780/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS